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the skeptic zone episode number 719

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is dedicated to the memory

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of jim wilshere our voice over man

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and my mentor

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia for science and reason

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 719 for the 17th of july

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2022

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and sad to say that my

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dear friend

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one of the greatest friends of my life

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friends for nearly 40 years jim wilshere

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who you hear every week on the skeptic

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zone announcing the show

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died within the last week

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now this news is rather new so

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i haven't prepared anything especially

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but i will probably in the weeks ahead

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maybe next week or week after i'll have

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a proper tribute to jim

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an enormously

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interesting man

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and

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he taught me just about everything i

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know

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about doing presenting and talking on

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microphones and

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that sort of thing so a very sad time

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here at the skeptic zone

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you can imagine

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condolences to his family his friends

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and his many fans out there in radio

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land as jim was a major radio star

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in the 1970s and 1980s

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and it was a personal thrill for me that

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jim agreed to be the announcer

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on the podcast when i came to do the

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skeptic zone so every week i'm reminded

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of my friendship with jim wilshere

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but now let's see what's coming up on

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the rest of today's episode

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i recorded an interview last week in

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salinas california with none other than

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ross blotcher from ono ross and carrie

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ross and carrie and i have been friends

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now for many years

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and i

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as i love to remind ross

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i was the first person to interview ross

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and gary

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just after they started their podcast a

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very popular podcast indeed oh no ross

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and kerry we catch up with

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ross in person

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following that it's the australian

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skeptic's newsletter read once again by

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adrian hill in canada what's caught the

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skeptical eye of tim mendem this week

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then to round off the show it's a dive

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into the trove the treasure trove of

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online newspapers

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and we're going to be looking at a

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series of articles regarding

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astrology

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ironic really or apt one or the other

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as in the last week we also had those

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stunning

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telescope about

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astronomy

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which really brings home the goods

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really delivers

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unlike

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astrology

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also in this episode you'll hear a

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a plug for the new documentary being put

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together by my friend brian dunning

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the ufo movie they don't want you to see

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and if you go to the ufo dot movie

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you can find out more about that but

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i'll be running a promotion in this

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week's episode i was quite pleased a

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couple of weeks ago to help brian film

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the uh

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the little uh teaser for that whole

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project

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well now it's time for me to run

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downstairs

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and

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to remember my friend jim i might see if

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i can rustle up some lamb cutlets

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he loved lamb cutlets he loved

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um

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the pie a lemon meringue pie

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and uh he loved life

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again a great loss anyway

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while i do that i hope you enjoy the

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[Music]

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but you can do the whole thing from an

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ipad like my friend richard saunders he

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does his whole podcast susan stop

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snoring over there skeptic zone

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which you can find i'm with ross

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blutcher we're discussing important

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things which susan gerbic does not

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understand

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like new recording devices now russ

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how long has uh owner ross and kerry

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been going now over 11 years

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yeah so i think it's graduated out of

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hobby into uh you know

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full-time side job how do you how do you

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manage to fit it all in time-wise yeah

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well i have i have a day job so it's

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essentially my night and weekend job

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but it's an investigations based podcast

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uh so we've always got multiple

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investigations going on in the

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background

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it's i mean i'm impressed every time i

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hear the show i'm thinking when do they

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sleep you know

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yeah when do i sleep kara my wife's over

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here and

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uh very little very little she says

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now i i i particularly like ross because

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he's admiring my new purchase there of a

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zoom

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device for recording susan doesn't

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understand it

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more snores from over there but you you

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appreciate 32-bit float don't you yeah

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we've been trying to convince susan of

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the importance of this but yeah

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essentially it's a lossless format you

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know you've got everything from the

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input and then later on you can go and

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do the uh resampling and pull the data

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that you need from it this is it's

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fantastic see

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see some respect at last

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yeah i didn't know about the zoom f3 but

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for for ono ross and carrie we use the

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zoom h6 and then we also have a zoom uh

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h4 in yes uh as a backup but yeah i want

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another smaller recorder just because

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sometimes you go to say a john edward uh

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performance and they tell you you know

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no recording devices and they want to

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check your phone in and everything it'd

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be nice to have a well i i use the zoom

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h6 primarily for the skeptic zone when

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i'm in my own studio and i hook up a

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rode nt-1a microphone to it and that's

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why i do most of my readings from yeah

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but with this one and sorry susan

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with this one it means if i do field

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interviews and i take a couple of xlr

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mics like the shore sm57s or something

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yeah plug them straight in no worrying

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about gain or anything yeah and

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everything's synchronized look how small

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that is it fits in

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palm of your hand you can get through

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the airport if australia will let you

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out

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here

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no wait uh this is uh apropos of nothing

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but i've just been curious can we see

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you in thor love and thunder

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well i s i spoke to somebody yesterday

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who went to see it and they said i for

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they forgot to look for me

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i will not forget to look for you i i'm

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really eager the the answer to the

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question is i don't know because i don't

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know

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if i'm still in it or i was cut out or

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if i'm in it and you blink and you miss

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it or i'm in it and you can clearly see

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me but if you don't know what i look

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like because i had a big full beard at

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the time oh that's good yeah yeah okay

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so i'll just have to let you know yeah i

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don't know i want it we're all dying to

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know everybody listening to this

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but let's get back to to your podcast

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yeah i mean enough about this

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oh isn't it beautiful susan look at that

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well you can't you can't get music

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you can't get them in australia yet

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that's why i bought it here yeah yeah

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yeah i've had the book did i get

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delivered to you to brian to brian okay

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brian brian appreciate this brian

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appreciated it well that's saying that

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ryan dunning was all excited about it

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anyway

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now here's something that you may not

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know susan that i was the very first

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person to interview ross and carrie

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about their podcast it's true yeah at

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the amazing meeting yeah that was

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fantastic there's some people i don't

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know they've got a podcast i'll

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interview them and we said we like this

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richard saunders guy

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yeah absolutely um yeah but you're a pod

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fellow podcaster you know the pressures

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of getting a show out on time and all

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the rest of it yeah i always have

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infinite respect for anybody who

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produces a podcast especially weekly

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because it's yeah it's a lot of work

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it's a lot of pressure it's a lot of

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angry emails you know if you say

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anything wrong so you know guys yeah

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you're always on the spot brian gets the

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uh but yeah i mean it's it's really fun

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because it allows me to do a lot of

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things that i would want to do but i

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never would otherwise because i want to

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have the excuse but drinking your own

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urine like drinking my own urine but

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also like flying off to kentucky for

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four days to visit the ark encounter in

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the creation museum for a homeschooling

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conference i just did that in early may

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and uh there's no way i could have

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justified that for listeners who may not

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be uh downloading owner ross and kerry

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what's what's what's the idea and what's

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kept it going for so many years yeah

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well first of all i pity you but

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it's not too late to get in on all the

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fun so yeah well we're all about

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investigating fringe religious groups

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alternative medical treatments uh

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science and spirituality and kind of

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the the borderlines of what science

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tells us about the world there's a lot

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of people making claims right on that

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edge or beyond it and we're interested

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in trying those things out firsthand and

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then we report back in excruciating

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detail so like we tell you everything

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like what happens when you show up at a

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conference or at a psychic and you know

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what they ask you for and what they say

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and how they respond to your questions

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um and and then we try to interject

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enough humor to help get you through all

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that excruciating but it's it's not just

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investigation you go through all the

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processes you you get initiated you do

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this you do the courses it's that's why

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i say when do you find time to sleep

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yeah and you know they give us books so

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we want to read the books and we want to

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learn everything we can about the

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founders and the discoverers um and so

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um yeah i think it's just that both of

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us uh carry poppy and myself uh just

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happen to be insatiably curious and and

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really excited when

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when people can say certain things to

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your face that just it's like an amazing

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i don't know human trick like how can

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you actually

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confidently look into someone's eyes and

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tell them that their dead mothers right

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next to them or something like that um

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and and that just endlessly fascinates

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us how do you get to that point that you

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can you know pedal this um you know 5g

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protector for your phone that we think

277
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:49,600
you you know that doesn't do anything

278
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:51,839
and you're selling that or do you know

279
00:10:56,630 --> 00:10:54,240
i don't know we're curious so i've heard

280
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:56,640
of an episode i've been re listening to

281
00:11:01,990 --> 00:10:58,320
some of the older ones and there's great

282
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:02,000
examples when kerry might be talking to

283
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:04,000
somebody and

284
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:05,440
somebody on the other end of the skype

285
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:07,040
call or somebody says

286
00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:09,120
get you know the pennies start to drop

287
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:10,160
and they say

288
00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:13,680
um i don't want you to use this

289
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:15,680
and kerry says well it doesn't work that

290
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,959
way

291
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,399
yeah that's one of the all-time best

292
00:11:22,550 --> 00:11:20,560
carry lines that's not how that works

293
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:22,560
um yeah carrie's been through journalism

294
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,079
school she's got her master's and she

295
00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:26,480
knows what she's able to do and what not

296
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:29,680
um and yeah uh some of her interviews

297
00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:32,399
with um oh goodness uh

298
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:34,880
uh shocking these mystics and things

299
00:11:38,790 --> 00:11:37,200
yeah well shotgun tally siberia was one

300
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:38,800
in particular probably the voice i was

301
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:40,640
trying to imagine yeah which is funny

302
00:11:45,110 --> 00:11:43,200
because yeah i think so and uh she

303
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:45,120
claims to be from siberia originally and

304
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:47,760
now she's changed her name to madonna

305
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,399
which is much harder to look up online

306
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,880
and we think in in large part because

307
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:54,639
she got so much scrutiny following our

308
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,200
investigation that she sort of uh

309
00:12:01,750 --> 00:11:59,360
reformulated we even talked to two

310
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:01,760
people who were uh fairly high up in her

311
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,800
organization who had left and uh yes she

312
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:06,399
changed her name and now she's still

313
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,639
peddling the same wares that was one of

314
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:10,399
my favorite episodes because i thought

315
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:11,680
wow that really

316
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,200
got her on the run here that was that

317
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:15,600
was a fast that was about four years ago

318
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,519
three years ago probably it's hard to

319
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,519
remember it sounds about right yeah um

320
00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:21,600
but yeah also uh kimberly meredith is

321
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,440
another one that kerry interviewed and

322
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:25,360
uh came to the interview with a lot more

323
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:28,399
preparation than kimberly ever thought

324
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:29,440
would go

325
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:31,279
that's the thing too we get contacted

326
00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:34,160
all the time as all podcasters do uh by

327
00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:36,399
various folks saying hey you want so and

328
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,320
so on your show or i just wrote this

329
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,160
book about angels and connecting with

330
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:42,959
light beings in the fifth dimension and

331
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:44,240
we will kind of chuckle like do you

332
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:45,440
really want to be on our show you

333
00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:47,680
haven't listened to our show have you uh

334
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:50,240
and uh sometimes sometimes we'll sort of

335
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:52,240
take that bait and say like oh yeah go

336
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:54,079
go give by all means come on the show

337
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:56,000
probably get the same emails i get from

338
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:57,920
people who are out to uh

339
00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:00,480
publicists yes would you like to have

340
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:02,320
this doctor quack and quack on your show

341
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,440
he's the vet

342
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:05,440
i wrote three times a day yeah right

343
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:07,279
back saying

344
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,279
you do realize what the skeptic zone is

345
00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:11,279
all about you know yeah usually i'll say

346
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:13,040
i don't see this as a match we'll let

347
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,720
you know if we're interested but usually

348
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:16,320
we want to tie those interviews to an

349
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:18,720
investigation so sometimes we'll say

350
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,480
okay maybe we'll look into your magic

351
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:22,399
soap you know and then we'll contact you

352
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:23,920
uh later

353
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:25,120
um but

354
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:26,160
um

355
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:28,000
yeah other

356
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:30,079
usually we'll just kind of say not

357
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:32,079
interested not quite compatible with the

358
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,600
format of our show but the other day

359
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,240
someone sent me um their it was the

360
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:38,480
publicist and they were saying um you

361
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:40,160
know this this guy has written all this

362
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,680
great material and has this device that

363
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:44,000
can protect you from 5g and imbalances

364
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,440
of electro

365
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:47,600
magnetic fields and so i wrote back and

366
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,199
said he might benefit from listening to

367
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:51,519
our podcast and i gave two links to

368
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:53,440
recent episodes we had done specifically

369
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:54,320
about

370
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:56,800
5g protests yeah where we'd sort of

371
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,880
broken down why why none of that is a

372
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:00,320
real concern you know

373
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,600
non-ionizing radiation you know um but

374
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,600
he's probably heard that before and he's

375
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,279
just kind of found a business and the

376
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:09,279
publicist is just doing their job

377
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:12,079
ultimately they don't particularly care

378
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:13,680
what the point of view is their job is

379
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:15,760
to get the person out there on podcasts

380
00:14:18,069 --> 00:14:16,480
and

381
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:18,079
newspapers if you don't reply to them

382
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:20,000
for three days they ping you again and

383
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:21,680
then again and so eventually i'm saying

384
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:24,079
sorry not a match i appreciate your

385
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:25,760
interest uh but

386
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,760
probably not the right match because you

387
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:30,000
could do a whole show just entirely that

388
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:31,279
but i don't think it would be as

389
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:33,120
interesting of a show there's an angle

390
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:35,040
there but uh so what's coming up in the

391
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:36,959
near future listeners might look forward

392
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:39,360
to anything you can let us in on yeah

393
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:42,160
well as we speak um i'm halfway through

394
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,519
my edit of our john edward investigation

395
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,760
i went to yeah and i'm finding not

396
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:50,160
everybody knows who this is anymore uh

397
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,000
but that's that's the yuri yellow that's

398
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:54,639
the urigela thing right because when i

399
00:14:57,910 --> 00:14:56,320
give demonstrations of spoon bending

400
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:57,920
especially to the younger set they've

401
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,320
got a clue who yuri gallery is and and

402
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,160
that's why it's good for us to all stay

403
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:05,120
current and be investigating the um you

404
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:12,550
wait uh now i'm i'm putting them

405
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:15,519
together yeah the tyler henry and thomas

406
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:16,880
john

407
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,680
or put them together oh really um you

408
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,760
know that's why you're the cindy kaisers

409
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:23,279
of the world so john edward is now

410
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:24,880
becoming something of the character from

411
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:27,760
the past a bit of irrelevance you know

412
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:31,199
just in conversations with people uh you

413
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:33,440
know i don't think john q public tends

414
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:39,670
well john edward for

415
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,759
decades has been making two trips to

416
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:43,279
australia one in the middle of the year

417
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:46,079
to publicize his tour in at the end of

418
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:49,040
the year and every time every six months

419
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,720
what happens he gets straight onto the

420
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:53,199
chat shows and the radio shows and he's

421
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,880
been the darling of the australian media

422
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:55,920
for years

423
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,560
amazing we did the protests in pasadena

424
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,880
no no no i don't think so

425
00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:01,839
no

426
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:03,600
oh wait a second uh well i remember you

427
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,480
were protesting the james von prague i

428
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:09,120
know paula was there with emery uh when

429
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,880
i was going to his psychic kids

430
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,880
investigation oh pasadena okay no i

431
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:14,160
wasn't there

432
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:15,360
no

433
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,040
i wasn't there for that one

434
00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:20,160
he had the aclu rules

435
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:22,160
and the police had to back off because

436
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:24,160
he was like this is public property oh

437
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,920
wow and that and the

438
00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:27,759
john edwards manager came out they've

439
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,759
got to go they've got to go and emery

440
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:31,519
was of course like emerald we don't have

441
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:33,120
to go emery's good at standing his

442
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:35,839
ground he did he stood his ground police

443
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:37,920
left well um

444
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:41,440
so the so the recent um uh john edward

445
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:43,440
presentation was in burbank he came to

446
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,079
my hometown or not hometown but where i

447
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,399
live yeah yeah and so i bought a vip

448
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,240
ticket and i went and they you know very

449
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,480
thoroughly said you shall not record but

450
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:54,079
you can take notes so

451
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,800
um yeah i uh so i went i took copious

452
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,639
notes and now i'm breaking down his

453
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,040
performance uh but also i'm really

454
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:03,120
excited about this one i

455
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:04,319
mentioned this earlier i went to

456
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:05,919
kentucky for a

457
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:08,559
uh homeschooling conference at the ark

458
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,640
the recreation of the life-size arc

459
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,520
and even ended up getting a tour of the

460
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:17,280
ark from the guy who'd been responsible

461
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,760
for all the signage and the final like

462
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:22,000
you know writing on all the exhibits so

463
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:23,280
i can't wait it's going to be a

464
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,199
multi-part investigation because i got

465
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:27,199
to break down every single display

466
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,640
within the arc there's more to

467
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:30,320
podcasting than just sitting in front of

468
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,520
a microphone

469
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:34,080
that's right yeah um so that's fine i

470
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,240
and there's no way i could have taken

471
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:38,799
multiple days off of work uh my regular

472
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,480
day job to do that unless i had the

473
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,559
podcast as an excuse things to look

474
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,039
forward to folks what a pleasure it is

475
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,120
rush to meet you again i mean we meet

476
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,440
each other what once every five years on

477
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,679
average something crazy like that just

478
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:53,120
long enough that it's meeting for the

479
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,640
first time

480
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:56,640
yeah always great to see you richard

481
00:18:00,930 --> 00:17:57,679
thank you always great to see you too

482
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:00,940
thank you very much

483
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:13,600
[Music]

484
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:15,760
carrie is it oh yes hi i'm carrie i am

485
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,160
psychic ross and i will be reading you

486
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,039
this evening oh interesting well okay i

487
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:23,200
co-host a podcast it's called ona ross

488
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:24,880
and kerry yes i'm sensing that the

489
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:27,440
spirits are telling me it is a show

490
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:29,039
about well it's about like fringe

491
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:31,440
science and spirituality and claims of

492
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,919
the paranormal oh you knew that you do

493
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:36,000
research online but more importantly

494
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:39,120
like we do in-person investigations

495
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:41,440
as well oh my god that's amazing you see

496
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,120
me and my friend this is so weird my

497
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:45,440
friend ross same name as you weird he

498
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:47,120
and i just go and try them all out and

499
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:48,320
actually we've gone to a number of

500
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:50,080
psychics and to be honest with you it's

501
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,400
a lot like this it's called ona ross and

502
00:18:59,070 --> 00:18:54,480
kerry they can find it at maximumfun.org

503
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:14,390
[Music]

504
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,880
hello everyone this is adrian hill from

505
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:18,640
canada here to read the highlights from

506
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:21,200
the australian skeptics newsletter this

507
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,160
is newsletter number 152.

508
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,160
you can subscribe to this newsletter and

509
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,320
get it delivered to your inbox every

510
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,559
other week complete with links to all

511
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:31,919
the stories

512
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:39,990
but now let's see what tim endum has for

513
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,450
us this week

514
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:42,960
[Music]

515
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,360
hi all says tim

516
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:48,080
new financial year in australia same old

517
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:50,880
conspiracies and weirdness

518
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,120
but at least there are indications of

519
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,600
growing distrust of and disenchantment

520
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:58,240
with the supernatural with the latest

521
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:01,520
census showing that no religion overtook

522
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:03,919
followers of the various sects

523
00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:06,080
and you really can't lump all christian

524
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,159
sex into one group

525
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,320
and that's just those willing or aware

526
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,240
enough to say so

527
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:14,640
who knows maybe that rationality will be

528
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:17,679
applied more broadly in the future

529
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:21,360
we are certainly doing our bit to help

530
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:22,880
read on

531
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:25,310
okay tim we'll do just that

532
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:29,760
[Music]

533
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:34,720
skepticon 2022 november 26 through 27th

534
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,360
the 2022 annual australian skeptics

535
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,840
national convention or skepticon for

536
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,000
2022 will be held at the national

537
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:44,400
library in canberra on the weekend of

538
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:47,520
november 26 through 27th there will also

539
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:49,039
be streaming of sessions for those

540
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:51,280
unable to attend and social events

541
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:53,919
beforehand and during the convention

542
00:20:56,970 --> 00:20:56,080
further details and ticket sales will be

543
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,980
available soon

544
00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:58,799
[Music]

545
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,760
wakefield's latest movie global

546
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,840
sterilization

547
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:06,080
oh wow

548
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:08,640
disgraced former doctor anti-vaxxer and

549
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:11,200
conspiracy theorist andrew wakefield has

550
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:14,799
produced a new film titled infertility a

551
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:16,880
diabolical agenda

552
00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:19,760
which quote details the world health

553
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:22,440
organization's intentions to produce an

554
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:25,039
anti-fertility vaccine in response to

555
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:27,440
perceived overpopulation

556
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,159
and how such vaccines have been used

557
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:32,159
without people's knowledge or consent

558
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:34,080
since the mid-90s

559
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,000
the film clearly illustrates the

560
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:38,400
depopulation agenda is not a conspiracy

561
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:40,960
theory it's reality and it's happening

562
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,159
worldwide the hpv vaccine and the covet

563
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:46,559
shots also have adverse impacts on

564
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:49,120
fertility that are being ignored end

565
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:50,480
quote

566
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:52,159
wakefield previously produced the

567
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:55,679
anti-vaccination film vaxxed rabbit hole

568
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,720
here we come

569
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:00,720
how flat earthers help conspiracy

570
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:05,669
apparently as many as 11 percent of

571
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:07,679
americans believe the earth might be

572
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:08,720
flat

573
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:10,640
the movement is using different methods

574
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,120
to persuade people overall suggesting

575
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:15,760
that free thinkers distrust experts who

576
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:16,559
use

577
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:20,559
book knowledge or nonsense math that lay

578
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:23,120
people cannot replicate

579
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:25,039
flat earthers often use personal

580
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,799
observations to test whether the earth

581
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:28,799
is round especially through homemade

582
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:31,280
experiments they see themselves as the

583
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:33,679
visionaries and scientists of yesteryear

584
00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:36,410
like a modern-day galileo

585
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:40,159
[Music]

586
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:43,039
psychic spies celebrate 50 years of

587
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:45,039
remote viewing

588
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,960
calling them spies is a bit over the top

589
00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:50,799
but the international remote viewing

590
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:52,840
association or

591
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:56,240
irva is inviting the public to celebrate

592
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:59,200
the 50th anniversary of remote viewing

593
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:00,640
that should be

594
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:03,200
quote attempts at remote viewing end

595
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:04,799
quote to the

596
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:07,760
visions for the future all-inclusive

597
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:10,320
conference in menlo park california from

598
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:14,960
july 22nd to july 24th 2022

599
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,120
menlo park is where the headquarters of

600
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:18,960
the stanford research institute is

601
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:21,280
located and the place where a lot of the

602
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:23,360
rv tests were done

603
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:26,000
speakers include howard put off and

604
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:27,360
russell targ

605
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:30,880
they coined the term remote viewing

606
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,240
but hurry as bookings closed july 16th

607
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:36,000
most of the accommodation included

608
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:38,480
packages are sold out so you may have to

609
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:40,640
revert to live streaming

610
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:43,440
which will set you back 100 us dollars

611
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,789
is sleep paralysis paranormal

612
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:55,120
this is an article that asks if sleep

613
00:23:59,920 --> 00:23:58,000
paralysis is a sleep disorder or a

614
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,930
paranormal phenomenon

615
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,120
[Music]

616
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:02,880
it then goes on to quote several people

617
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:05,760
whose experiences are classes paranormal

618
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,000
though it promises quote for any

619
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:10,080
skeptical readers out there

620
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:12,559
don't worry we will provide a scientific

621
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:15,520
explanation as well end quote

622
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:18,400
well not much one paragraph among many

623
00:24:21,370 --> 00:24:20,720
is not exactly going overboard with

624
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:21,380
science

625
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:23,679
[Music]

626
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:26,640
my middle son i believe experienced this

627
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:29,919
and he actually thought for a long time

628
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,230
he was convinced it was a paranormal

629
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:39,760
experience

630
00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:42,159
or at least an alien one

631
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:44,880
carl sagan warning on lack of skeptical

632
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:47,200
thinking

633
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:49,840
shortly before his death in 1996

634
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:52,320
astronomer and skeptic carl sagan

635
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:54,400
appeared on the tv talk show charlie

636
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:56,880
rose and made a dire warning about how

637
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,360
the average american's lack of skeptical

638
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:01,120
scientific thinking could lead to

639
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:03,600
disastrous consequences

640
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:06,159
nowadays that equates to anti-vaxxers

641
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:08,159
conspiracy theories and climate change

642
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:09,760
deniers

643
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:12,400
in a society quote in which nobody

644
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,240
understands anything about science and

645
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:16,799
technology this combustible mixture of

646
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:19,120
ignorance and power sooner or later is

647
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:21,360
going to blow up in our faces end quote

648
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,039
he told rose

649
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,520
quote i mean who is running the science

650
00:25:29,909 --> 00:25:27,600
and technology in a democracy if the

651
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:29,919
people don't know anything about it end

652
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,440
quote

653
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,520
he warned that our lack of critical

654
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,440
thinking leaves us vulnerable to those

655
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,159
who wish to exploit our ignorance

656
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:41,120
a moving short and prescient video from

657
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:42,400
a leading skeptic

658
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:49,350
the june issue of the skeptic magazine

659
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:51,440
is now out with a special feature on

660
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:54,000
pseudoscience riding on the coattails of

661
00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:56,240
genuine science and if you haven't

662
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,200
subscribed yet now is the time to do so

663
00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:01,120
contact the editor if you're not sure if

664
00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:03,200
your existing subscription needs

665
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:05,039
renewing

666
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:07,440
to subscribe to the skeptic go to our

667
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:09,679
shop to sign up for a hard copy or

668
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:12,799
digital edition or both the digital is

669
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:14,720
offered free to those who take up the

670
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,520
hard copy version

671
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:19,520
learn more about our magazine and

672
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:21,440
subscribe now

673
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:23,360
if you have any ideas for stories or

674
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:24,880
want to contribute to skeptics

675
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:26,960
communications such as the magazine or

676
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:29,440
facebook page or just have something you

677
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:31,360
want to get off your chest then you're

678
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:33,279
welcome to get in touch

679
00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:37,360
news leads should be sent to news tips

680
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:37,840
dot at

681
00:26:43,870 --> 00:26:39,919
u

682
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:43,880
go to editor at

683
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:45,250
skeptics.com.a u

684
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:46,480
[Music]

685
00:26:53,170 --> 00:26:48,960
comments and suggestions should also go

686
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:55,029
[Music]

687
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:57,840
items of interest

688
00:27:01,909 --> 00:26:59,840
boris johnson's future

689
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:01,919
the experts speak

690
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:03,440
or grunt

691
00:27:07,090 --> 00:27:04,400
bark

692
00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:07,100
or throw things into the air

693
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:09,279
[Music]

694
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,480
a scott's tv presenter used a psychic

695
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:15,120
pig i guess that's the grunting part

696
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:18,159
named mystic marcus who wandered to a

697
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:21,200
sign that said go just minutes before

698
00:27:25,850 --> 00:27:23,440
johnson announced his resignation as

699
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:25,860
party leader well there you go

700
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,120
[Music]

701
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:29,840
meanwhile a psychic seal which backed

702
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:32,799
england to do well at euro 2020 just so

703
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:34,960
you know they lost the final

704
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:37,600
gave his seal of approval to ben wallace

705
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:40,240
defense secretary and apparently popular

706
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:43,440
with the tory cohort but that was out of

707
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:46,080
a choice of just two

708
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,440
and more meanwhile a fortune teller

709
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,120
mystic veg

710
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,000
who predicts the future using asparagus

711
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:56,960
of course has also revealed the uk's

712
00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:59,440
next prime minister will be wallace

713
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:00,840
there's no doubt

714
00:28:07,269 --> 00:28:05,200
then a seal and asparagus if they agree

715
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:07,279
well that's all for this week until next

716
00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:09,440
time this is adrian hill signing off

717
00:28:14,860 --> 00:28:12,399
from the land of the okanagan ogopogo

718
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:14,870
snow snakes and the sasquatch

719
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:25,279
[Music]

720
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:27,200
hey everyone this is brian dunning

721
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:30,000
executive producer of science friction

722
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:32,399
now on streaming services i wanted to

723
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:34,080
let you know about my next feature

724
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:36,880
documentary film it's called the ufo

725
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,840
movie they don't want you to see

726
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:41,600
and it's a science-based look at this

727
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:44,799
whole modern ufo phenomenon what don't

728
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:47,520
we know what do we know and how do we

729
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:49,919
know it we're going to speak with pilots

730
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:53,440
physicists image analysts and uniquely

731
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:55,840
experts in optical illusions and give

732
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:57,360
the audience a good understanding of

733
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:00,720
what's actually in all these ufo videos

734
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:02,559
come and watch the trailer and if you

735
00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:04,720
like help produce the film

736
00:29:09,789 --> 00:29:06,200
visit the

737
00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:09,799
ufo.movie to see it that's the

738
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,440
ufo.movie

739
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,440
join me and let's make this film a real

740
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:15,440
resource that does the world some good

741
00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:16,799
for a change

742
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,720
the

743
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:19,360
ufo.movie

744
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:23,520
i'm brian dunning thank you

745
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:35,039
[Music]

746
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:37,279
now it's time once again to go back to

747
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:40,080
those archives at trove at trove.nla.gov

748
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,440
dot a u

749
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,679
you and mine and everybody's online

750
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:45,279
resource from the australian government

751
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,279
and the national library of australia

752
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:49,200
digitized newspapers

753
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:50,559
and much more

754
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:52,480
and what fun we have diving into the

755
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,520
trove

756
00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:55,919
the treasure we find in that

757
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:58,000
inflammation vault

758
00:30:01,510 --> 00:30:00,159
this week we're going to look at

759
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:01,520
astrology

760
00:30:08,690 --> 00:30:04,240
and a series of articles and

761
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:10,549
[Music]

762
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:12,799
and these all appeared in the canberra

763
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,279
times in 1986

764
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:17,760
and the first article comes from the

765
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,480
15th of june

766
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,960
the extraordinary and bizarre belief in

767
00:30:27,340 --> 00:30:24,480
the paranormal

768
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:27,350
by william gray

769
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:32,640
[Music]

770
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:34,640
astrologers say that if you were born

771
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:37,919
between february 20 and march 20 you are

772
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:41,039
extremely sensitive unworldly

773
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,919
and impractical and always eager to try

774
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:46,240
to escape from reality

775
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:49,440
these characteristics they say are the

776
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:50,480
result

777
00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:53,200
not of constitution or upbringing

778
00:30:56,990 --> 00:30:55,440
but of the position of the sun at the

779
00:30:59,430 --> 00:30:57,000
time of your birth

780
00:31:01,430 --> 00:30:59,440
numerologists might tell you

781
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:01,440
similar stories based on numbers

782
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:04,159
associated with the letters of your name

783
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:06,399
others will read your destiny or

784
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:07,679
character

785
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:10,640
in the palm of your hand or even a

786
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,600
teacup i am someone who is greatly

787
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,000
puzzled about belief in the paranormal

788
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:18,480
associations made by psychics and

789
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:21,440
astrologers about our destinies esp and

790
00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:24,720
so forth are ones which i find

791
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,320
extraordinary and bizarre there is then

792
00:31:34,350 --> 00:31:30,960
a stark difference between the way i

793
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,360
look at the world and the way which is

794
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:36,640
characteristically adopted by psychics

795
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,960
and other friends of the paranormal

796
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:41,039
a very mixed bag

797
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:43,600
in particular it seems to me that while

798
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,480
the world can sometimes be favorable

799
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,200
ordered according to our designs our

800
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:51,760
best laid plans are frequently

801
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:55,440
confounded by what michael freyan has

802
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:57,840
nicely called the sheer

803
00:32:03,789 --> 00:32:01,360
knobbiness of things accident mishap and

804
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:03,799
contingency feature centrally as

805
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:08,559
uncontrollable and unpredictable factors

806
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,360
but not i stress as agencies

807
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:13,679
which perpetually dissipate the

808
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,480
organization and order which we try to

809
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:18,960
impose upon our surroundings

810
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,159
the law of murphy seems to me to capture

811
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,399
an important feature of the way that the

812
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:26,640
world resists our attempts to structure

813
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,559
it in a systematic and organized manner

814
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:32,480
the way that psychics and other friends

815
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,840
of the paranormal make sense of the

816
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:36,000
world is very different

817
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:38,960
where i see chaos and mishap they see

818
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:43,200
hidden continuity and pattern in this

819
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:45,600
lies the basic difference between their

820
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:46,960
world view

821
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,399
and my own

822
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:50,559
a couple of books which i have recently

823
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:51,519
read

824
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:54,480
with bemused fascination have helped me

825
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,159
to understand the difference between the

826
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:58,159
world view of the psychics

827
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:59,120
and

828
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:00,720
my own

829
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:04,720
they are bridget pleuris avc of esp

830
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:07,760
and derek and julia parks the new

831
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:10,000
complete astrologer

832
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:11,919
entertain the belief structure of a

833
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:14,720
psychic presents a difficulty for people

834
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:16,000
like myself

835
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:19,360
it is a bit like attempting to fathom

836
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:20,720
the thinking

837
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:24,000
of a distant foreign tribe with a widely

838
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:26,320
disparate world view

839
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:28,000
i will try to illustrate this difference

840
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,399
with the help of an example

841
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:32,960
this modest exercise in epistemological

842
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:36,559
anthropology not only helps to clarify

843
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,120
the way psychics interpret the world it

844
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,480
also i think reveals something important

845
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:44,000
about the way

846
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:46,399
that we make sense of the world quite

847
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:48,080
generally

848
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:50,960
suppose that someone is walking under a

849
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:53,679
building and is struck by a tile that

850
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:56,720
happens to fall from the roof overhead

851
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:00,559
this i say is an accident a coincidence

852
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,000
bad luck the unfortunate event is the

853
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:06,559
consequence of two independent

854
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:07,600
happenings

855
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:10,240
the walk the falling of the tile for

856
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:13,520
each of which there is very likely at

857
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:15,119
least in principle

858
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:18,399
a perfectly good causal explanation

859
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:20,639
the falling of the tile can be explained

860
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,520
as the result of its material properties

861
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:25,919
facts about its age weathering and

862
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,159
various historical visitudes before and

863
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:32,639
including the moment when it broke off

864
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:36,079
and fell the walk is explicable in terms

865
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:38,800
of the intentions and desires of the

866
00:34:44,069 --> 00:34:41,359
unfortunate individual whose location

867
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:44,079
interrupted the tile's descent

868
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:47,520
but to ask the further question quote

869
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:51,119
why did that tile fall on that person in

870
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:54,399
quote is in my view utterly futile

871
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:57,119
it is a question for which there is and

872
00:35:03,550 --> 00:35:00,640
can be in principle no answer

873
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:03,560
the falling of the tile and the walk are

874
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:06,560
intrinsically unrelated events they are

875
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:07,520
part of

876
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:10,079
distant and unconnected

877
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:11,839
or decoupled

878
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:13,760
causal chains

879
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:15,920
this sort of pattern of happenings seems

880
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:17,200
to me to

881
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,000
exemplify much of what goes on the

882
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,240
history of individuals and nations

883
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:24,560
consists largely of the fortuitous

884
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:28,720
intersection of decoupled causal chains

885
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:31,359
it is for this reason that one seeks

886
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:34,000
laws of historical development and

887
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:36,800
similar generalizations at one's peril

888
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:39,599
and it is the same fact that makes any

889
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:42,240
attempt to predict the future in any

890
00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:45,040
detail a hopeless exercise

891
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:47,599
there is plenty of scope for developing

892
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:50,160
fairly general predictions and to

893
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:53,359
provide satisfactory explanations of why

894
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:55,119
various things happen

895
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:58,480
but the best we can do is identify broad

896
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,119
trends and tendencies within a single

897
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:03,520
causal framework a great deal of what

898
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:06,560
goes on is thoroughly accidental and

899
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:09,680
contingent just because it is the result

900
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:11,359
of fortuitous intersections of

901
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:14,000
independent causal chains sometimes

902
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,079
things work out happily

903
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:18,480
and we speak of good luck but luck is

904
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,320
not some mysterious force which is

905
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:23,200
subtly directing our destinies it is

906
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:25,760
just the retrospective evaluation of

907
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:28,640
contingent and unpredictable outcomes

908
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:30,400
with respect to our desires and

909
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:31,680
interests

910
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:34,240
psychics however see the world

911
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:36,480
very differently they agree that being

912
00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:38,640
struck by a tile for example

913
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:42,280
is bad luck all right but there are no

914
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:43,920
coincidences

915
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:46,480
the walk and the falling of the tile are

916
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:47,760
connected

917
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:50,480
psychics believe not in a superficial

918
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:52,880
obvious testable way but

919
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:56,480
in a subtle deep and unobvious way

920
00:37:02,310 --> 00:36:59,680
psychics differ among themselves as to

921
00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:02,320
the right way to uncover these

922
00:37:08,470 --> 00:37:05,440
underlying connections astrologers see

923
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:08,480
such apparently unconnected events as a

924
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:10,400
reflection of distant stellar

925
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:13,680
configurations numerologists see them as

926
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:16,240
a reflection of the harmonics which can

927
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:19,359
be uncovered by grasping subtle

928
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:22,480
arithmetical correlations this is

929
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:24,400
another fascinating aspect of the

930
00:37:29,390 --> 00:37:27,040
problem of grappling with paranormal

931
00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:29,400
belief structures they are so

932
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:32,160
conspicuously inconsistent with one

933
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:33,599
another

934
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,000
believers tend to be convinced of the

935
00:37:42,109 --> 00:37:38,240
truth of their own preferred

936
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:42,119
enthusiasm and to share the skeptic's

937
00:37:47,270 --> 00:37:45,440
incredulity about the legitimacy of

938
00:37:49,750 --> 00:37:47,280
other psychics

939
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:49,760
explanations

940
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,280
i do not want to exploit the

941
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:53,839
opportunities for cheap forensic triumph

942
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,680
which psychic experts generously provide

943
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:00,000
what i find fascinating and what is

944
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:02,240
largely unnoticed is the way that

945
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:05,760
psychics are engaged in that most

946
00:38:10,670 --> 00:38:08,560
characteristic of human enterprises the

947
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:10,680
attempt to capture our chaotic and

948
00:38:16,829 --> 00:38:13,920
fragmentary experiences in a network of

949
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:16,839
meanings and to discover the hidden

950
00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:19,839
connectedness which we hope underlies

951
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,720
all the disorderly and recalcitrant

952
00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:24,560
happenings in the world

953
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:27,280
despite the stark difference in approach

954
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:29,599
the belief structure of psychics has

955
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,079
something important in common with

956
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:34,160
scientific worldviews

957
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:37,200
this is the urge to discover

958
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,480
or invent

959
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:40,960
repetitive patterns which lie

960
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:44,079
hidden beneath a veneer of disorder

961
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:46,000
scientific understanding of the world

962
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:47,440
has developed on

963
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,160
just this heuristic assumption

964
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:53,280
physics in particular provides us with

965
00:38:57,230 --> 00:38:55,920
its most profound insights by uncovering

966
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:57,240
underlying and

967
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:00,640
unobvious connections which link

968
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:04,720
apparently disparate events in the world

969
00:39:09,270 --> 00:39:07,200
newton's triumph was precisely to

970
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:09,280
provide an orderly interpretation of

971
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,079
apparent disconnected phenomena namely

972
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:14,400
stellar and terrestrial motions

973
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:16,480
the elegant classical conceptions of

974
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:19,200
newton which revealed an underlying

975
00:39:24,550 --> 00:39:21,839
system of orderly connections eventually

976
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:24,560
collapsed however when his success is

977
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:25,680
uncovered

978
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,800
in the microphysical world a disorder of

979
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:30,960
randomness which underlies the

980
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,320
classically conceived newtonian order

981
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:36,480
randomness and disorder are difficult

982
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:38,720
for the human mind to accept

983
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:41,680
they were repugnant to einstein for

984
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:42,560
example

985
00:39:46,829 --> 00:39:45,040
who hoped to find order beneath the

986
00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:46,839
randomness of

987
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,119
microphysical world

988
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:51,119
psychics are committed to the belief

989
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:53,839
that there are extra physical ways in

990
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:56,160
which happenings in the world are

991
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,280
related

992
00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:59,760
that there are hidden meanings to be

993
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:01,760
deciphered through techniques and

994
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:04,319
methods which transcend the limitations

995
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:06,079
of empirical science

996
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:08,560
psychics develop their own preposterous

997
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:10,640
claims about the world by clinging

998
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:13,520
unswervingly to this metaphysical

999
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:14,960
article of faith

1000
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:16,640
the same assumption

1001
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,280
faith in underlying order despite

1002
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:22,400
appearances to the contrary which has

1003
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:24,800
motivated many of our most powerful

1004
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:26,960
theoretical innovations

1005
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:29,599
what distinguishes the discoveries of

1006
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:32,560
subtle truths from the purveyors of

1007
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:35,520
spearous nonsense is the fact that the

1008
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:38,480
former are prepared to abandon their

1009
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:41,119
generalizations in the light of

1010
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:43,119
disconfirming evidence

1011
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:44,800
australian skeptics offered the very

1012
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:47,280
large sum of one hundred thousand

1013
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:49,359
dollars to any dowser who could

1014
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:51,599
demonstrate his or her powers under

1015
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:53,359
controlled conditions

1016
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:55,839
dowsers agreed to the conditions of the

1017
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:57,599
test in advance

1018
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:58,720
and failed

1019
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,160
skeptics did not expose the dowsers

1020
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:05,040
they exposed themselves if you want an

1021
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:07,040
account of psychic claims and the

1022
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:11,839
psychic worldview the abc of esp

1023
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,800
is a representative and very uncritical

1024
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:16,880
source it should be

1025
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:20,079
balanced with readings from a less

1026
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:22,800
indulgent source such as the journal

1027
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:25,200
this skeptical inquirer similar caveats

1028
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:27,920
applied to the parker's book on

1029
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:31,040
astrology which is the source of the

1030
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:33,280
absurd claim set out in the opening

1031
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:34,400
paragraph

1032
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:37,680
the central claim of astrologers and it

1033
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,160
underlies the parker's book

1034
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:42,079
is that stellar and planetary

1035
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:43,839
configurations at the time of an

1036
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:46,319
individual's birth affect his or her

1037
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:48,960
destiny again readers should temper

1038
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:51,920
their astrological enthusiasms

1039
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:55,040
with sobering drafts from carefully and

1040
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:58,240
disciplined examinations of the subject

1041
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:01,599
from sources like the skeptical inquirer

1042
00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:05,680
astrology at bottom is motivated by a

1043
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:08,800
distaste for disorder an urge to find

1044
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:11,280
hidden underlying connectedness

1045
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:13,920
linking desperate events

1046
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:16,720
this heuristic pattern making assumption

1047
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:19,040
is an essential ingredient of the world

1048
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,680
view which has enabled us to develop a

1049
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,839
subtle and profound understanding of the

1050
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:25,920
nature of our world

1051
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:28,800
it is also however an assumption which

1052
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:31,680
can be profoundly misleading if it is

1053
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,560
not coupled with a procedure for the

1054
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:36,800
testing of generalizations against

1055
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:39,839
evidence it is this leukena which makes

1056
00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:42,720
psychic explanations a pathological

1057
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:45,280
manifestation of our attempt to make

1058
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:47,760
sense of the world

1059
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:49,680
william gray has taught philosophy at

1060
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,079
the australian national university and

1061
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,720
temple university philadelphia he works

1062
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:56,880
in the department of science and is

1063
00:43:02,550 --> 00:43:00,000
secretary of the act branch

1064
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:02,560
of australian skeptics

1065
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:05,040
now that was published again on the 15th

1066
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:07,440
of june 1986

1067
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:09,280
in the canberra times

1068
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:12,880
and here on the 2nd of july

1069
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,880
in the same newspaper is a response

1070
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:18,240
astrology

1071
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:22,640
order within disorder received june 23

1072
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:25,280
and it is a letter to the editor

1073
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:27,839
sir i am writing in response to the

1074
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:28,800
article

1075
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:30,640
quote the extraordinary and bizarre

1076
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:32,960
belief in the paranormal and quote by

1077
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:36,240
william gray in the sunday extra of june

1078
00:43:39,910 --> 00:43:37,280
15.

1079
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:39,920
the article seems to rely on the concept

1080
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,119
that the universe is ultimately a random

1081
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,359
chaotic disordered place

1082
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:47,680
i cannot disagree with this concept in

1083
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:50,640
fact it is in keeping with this concept

1084
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,960
that i would like to make the following

1085
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:54,720
observations

1086
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:57,040
albert einstein as was stated in the

1087
00:44:02,870 --> 00:43:59,920
article found this concept repugnant he

1088
00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:02,880
said quote i cannot believe god plays

1089
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:05,920
dice with the universe end quote but

1090
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:09,040
einstein was a piscean that is he was

1091
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:12,160
born between february 20 and march 20.

1092
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:14,720
small wonder he found reality so hard to

1093
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:15,839
accept

1094
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:18,480
if the universe is a chaotic random

1095
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:22,079
environment then it can be likened to a

1096
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:24,800
string of random numbers

1097
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:28,560
let us assume the following are random

1098
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:29,520
eight

1099
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:31,359
seven

1100
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:32,240
four

1101
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:33,200
one

1102
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:34,079
two

1103
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:34,960
three

1104
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:35,760
four

1105
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:36,720
five

1106
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:37,520
six

1107
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:38,400
one

1108
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:40,160
three

1109
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:41,040
six

1110
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,480
eight

1111
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:44,560
i can assert safely that this string of

1112
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:47,359
numbers would occur somewhere on an

1113
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:50,240
infinite series of random numbers note

1114
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:53,599
the apparent ordered series 1 2

1115
00:44:59,190 --> 00:44:56,480
3 4 5 6

1116
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,200
starting at position 5 on the line

1117
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:01,520
this apparently ordered series within a

1118
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:03,680
random string is called a

1119
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:07,200
quote markov chain end quote

1120
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:09,520
in a chaotic random universe there are

1121
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:11,920
many seemingly ordered systems

1122
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:14,560
these are galaxies star systems planets

1123
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:18,640
life forms etc these spraying up as if

1124
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:21,520
by accident and continue existing for an

1125
00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:24,240
apparently random period in this way you

1126
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:28,000
can be sure you exist but you have no

1127
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:30,800
idea for how long you will continue to

1128
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:34,000
do so within our markov chain we can

1129
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:36,319
make statements about the relationship

1130
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:38,800
between individual elements that are

1131
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:42,319
only true within the ordered system

1132
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,920
we need only add one to obtain the value

1133
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:47,599
of the next element

1134
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:50,800
this is true until the ordered chain

1135
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:52,480
disappears

1136
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:54,800
the solar system is an ordered chain in

1137
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:57,760
a sea of random disorder we call the

1138
00:46:02,470 --> 00:46:00,079
cosmos if certain individuals claim

1139
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:02,480
there is a relationship between elements

1140
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:03,920
of this system

1141
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:06,800
i.e the planets and affairs of humans

1142
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:09,920
the true test of this validity must be

1143
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:14,160
observation not dismissal on a priori

1144
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:17,040
considerations like quote order doesn't

1145
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:20,000
exist in a disordered universe end quote

1146
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:23,680
astrology is not an attempt to project

1147
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,400
or perceive order in what is a

1148
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,720
disordered cosmos it is the observed

1149
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,640
relationship between elements of a

1150
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:32,160
markov chain

1151
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:36,480
this does not detract from its validity

1152
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:38,560
astrology will remain valid while the

1153
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:41,440
solar system remains

1154
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:44,000
isaac newton who was among other things

1155
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:45,440
an astrologer

1156
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:48,319
once said to a critic of astrology quote

1157
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:51,440
i sir have studied the subject you have

1158
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:53,920
not and quote i would level this

1159
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:57,359
criticism at mr gray many publications

1160
00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:00,480
that are allegedly about astrology

1161
00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:02,960
are really about increasing the bank

1162
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:05,920
balances of the authors not increasing

1163
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,240
human understanding or evolution

1164
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:10,480
one or two books does not a course of

1165
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:13,920
study make astrology is far more than

1166
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:16,240
merely noting the position of the sun at

1167
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:17,520
one's birth

1168
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:18,800
the

1169
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:21,920
science of astrology has endured

1170
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:24,480
thousands of years and more recently

1171
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:27,680
major persecution by segments of society

1172
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:30,480
best dismissed with the contempt it

1173
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:31,760
deserves

1174
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:35,119
the reign of the sort of dogma that

1175
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,079
compel galileo to announce publicly that

1176
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:40,000
the earth was the center of the solar

1177
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:42,079
system is at an end

1178
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:43,520
the science

1179
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:47,440
of astrology may now be pursued without

1180
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:50,079
fear to dismiss this science as an

1181
00:47:55,109 --> 00:47:52,000
attempt to reconcile a purely

1182
00:47:58,390 --> 00:47:55,119
psychological interpretation without the

1183
00:48:01,910 --> 00:47:58,400
psyche of astrologers on the strength of

1184
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:01,920
one publication is totally irresponsible

1185
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,240
mr grace demonstrated intellectual

1186
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:06,720
nihilism is probably the cause of his

1187
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,440
inability to accept that order does

1188
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:11,920
occur within the disorder of the

1189
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:14,319
universe unless this inability is the

1190
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:16,400
cause of his philosophy

1191
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:20,480
but i do not begrudge mr gray is beliefs

1192
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:22,640
i suggest there is room within the

1193
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:25,200
philosophical scientific environment of

1194
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:27,520
human civilization and other concepts

1195
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:29,760
and belief systems i believe these

1196
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,000
systems should be properly apprehended

1197
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,640
before they are criticized if mr gray is

1198
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:36,880
really interested in studying astrology

1199
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:39,760
i suggest he begin the work of dr

1200
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:41,839
michelle grocklin

1201
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:44,319
and dr hans j

1202
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:45,760
eisnick

1203
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:48,160
stephen cook publicity officer

1204
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:50,880
federation of australian astrologers act

1205
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:53,680
branch macquarie

1206
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,359
what an interesting reply that was

1207
00:49:02,230 --> 00:48:59,760
and to this day

1208
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:02,240
i imagine astrologers still insist that

1209
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:03,760
astrology

1210
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,200
is a science

1211
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:07,680
and of course as you know skeptical

1212
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:10,640
groups around the world are very happy

1213
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:15,359
to apply scientific rigor to astrology

1214
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:17,359
and finally from the same newspaper once

1215
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,000
again this time on the 21st of july 1986

1216
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,240
in letters to the editor

1217
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:26,559
astrological nonsense

1218
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:29,520
received july 18.

1219
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:30,640
sir

1220
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:33,520
your paper has given much space recently

1221
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:36,720
to mr stephen cook publicity officer

1222
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:38,720
from the federation of australian

1223
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:41,839
astrologers firstly for him to air his

1224
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:44,880
views on the quote science and quote of

1225
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:47,920
astrology and secondly to respond to

1226
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:51,119
critical comments made by ian warden

1227
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:52,960
i didn't uncover that

1228
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:55,440
particular item but nevertheless

1229
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:57,680
despite the opportunities given to him

1230
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:00,079
mr cook has yet to explain how random

1231
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:02,800
groupings of stars many light years away

1232
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:05,200
are able to exert an influence on the

1233
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:08,079
present behavior or future expectations

1234
00:50:11,829 --> 00:50:09,359
of people

1235
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:11,839
if mr cook had any scientific leanings

1236
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:15,440
whatsoever he would accept that

1237
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:17,680
apart from soul

1238
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:20,640
the only influence stars have had on the

1239
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:22,800
development of mankind is in the field

1240
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,559
of navigation

1241
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:26,880
mr cook would do well to restrict his

1242
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:29,520
publicity to the gullible few who have

1243
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:32,400
joined his federation rather than to

1244
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:34,480
insult the intelligence of the rest of

1245
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:35,680
us

1246
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:37,760
congratulations to the canberra times

1247
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:40,559
for being one of the few papers not

1248
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:41,920
publishing

1249
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:44,800
astrological nonsense

1250
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:46,160
be butler

1251
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:55,349
and i would say about that letter where

1252
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,359
b butler says

1253
00:51:01,910 --> 00:50:59,760
the only influence stars have had on the

1254
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:01,920
development of mankind is in the field

1255
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,839
of navigation well yes that's partly

1256
00:51:06,950 --> 00:51:05,280
true of course

1257
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,960
very important that

1258
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:08,880
early navigators and navigators even

1259
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:10,880
today at times use the stars but i would

1260
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:13,119
argue that the uh the stars in the

1261
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:14,079
heavens

1262
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:15,440
have had

1263
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:18,400
more than a passing uh influence on

1264
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:19,920
society and

1265
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,800
our development even if it is even if it

1266
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:25,440
is through astrology at times

1267
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:26,559
which

1268
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:28,640
helped chart a course for human

1269
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:34,549
so there we go all the way from 1986

1270
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:35,440
some

1271
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,520
reports and letters to the editor about

1272
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:38,880
astrology

1273
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:40,960
and just to be clear

1274
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:43,280
it doesn't matter how many times

1275
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:47,200
astrologers say astrology is a science

1276
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:48,720
it simply

1277
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:52,079
is not it does not follow the scientific

1278
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:53,040
method

1279
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,720
it is largely

1280
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:56,960
untestable or will not be willing to be

1281
00:52:01,910 --> 00:51:59,760
tested or if the testing results in

1282
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:01,920
negative results then those results are

1283
00:52:08,309 --> 00:52:06,000
discarded it is not it is not science

1284
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:08,319
but you too can discover science and

1285
00:52:13,150 --> 00:52:10,079
non-science by

1286
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:13,160
looking into the archives at trove

1287
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:15,839
trove.nla.gov dot a u

1288
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:17,680
don't look to the stars look to the

1289
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:18,800
trove

1290
00:52:38,549 --> 00:52:23,330
and you never know what you might find

1291
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:40,230
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1292
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,160
zone no matter where you are

1293
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:44,720
maybe you're in a uh northern suburb of

1294
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,440
melbourne maybe you're over there in

1295
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:49,200
salinas california

1296
00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:51,280
maybe you're up in oregon

1297
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:52,880
no matter where you are no matter where

1298
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,280
you are scattered around the world

1299
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:57,599
i hope you enjoy the show coming up on

1300
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:59,440
next week's show in the trove segment

1301
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,040
i'm going to be looking at

1302
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:03,520
alien abductions

1303
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:06,400
have you abducted any aliens lately

1304
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,280
and

1305
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:09,119
coming up in a couple of weeks i think

1306
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:12,800
we have a trove regarding pyramid power

1307
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:14,880
pyramid power remember that from the

1308
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:17,760
1970s and the 1980s thank you to those

1309
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:19,280
people who continue to support the

1310
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:21,839
skeptic zone at skepticzone.tv via

1311
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:25,280
patreon or paypal and thank you to the

1312
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:28,880
very generous uh benefactor who

1313
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:32,319
contributed enough for me to buy the

1314
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:34,559
recording device the zoom f3 as

1315
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:38,640
mentioned earlier with ross blotcher

1316
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:41,839
in fact i'm using it right now and it is

1317
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:42,960
superb

1318
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:44,800
now i don't get anything from the zoom

1319
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,119
people i had purchased this myself but

1320
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:49,280
it is a nice bit of kit

1321
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,119
but for now

1322
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,960
this is richard saunders signing off

1323
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:54,559
from sydney australia but i'll leave the

1324
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:58,160
last word to jim wilshere and this is

1325
00:54:08,150 --> 00:53:59,440
the

1326
00:54:10,630 --> 00:54:08,160
adventure we did some years ago you can

1327
00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:10,640
hear that if you go to skepticzone.tv

1328
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:12,559
scroll down to the bottom you can click

1329
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:15,200
the link for solar flare the space

1330
00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:17,359
adventure

1331
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,760
and uh jim

1332
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,920
carries the show throughout with his

1333
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:23,760
narration

1334
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:26,480
so the last word goes to you

1335
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:27,680
my friend

1336
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:29,920
jim wilshere

1337
00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:31,200
narration

1338
00:54:36,829 --> 00:54:34,319
by me jim wilshere